I had a great conversation a few days ago with Bethany Hoang of International Justice Mission, the human rights organization I describe in chapter 11 of Culture Making. Bethany is the director of the IJM Institute, an outstanding source of information and resources for church leaders seeking justice for the oppressed.

Here is an excerpt from our conversation, available in two parts: 5 Minutes with Andy Crouch (part 1) (part 2).

Bethany: If we can’t “change the world” . . . then when someone sincerely expresses “I want to see slavery end in my lifetime,” what guidance would you give?

Andy: It’s tricky. I don’t want to discourage that, but I would say a couple things. First, it is absolutely right to pray to the Lord of history that slavery be ended, because that is God’s will.  We should be praying for Him to work in such a way that slavery is ended and all injustice is ended. That being said, I really think the most effective thing to do is probably not going to be a global abolition campaign.  And here’s why: The causes and channels and conduits of what we label slavery are so different in different cultures that is very difficult to address that problem on that global level.  And, not only are the causes of slavery diverse in different areas, also the remedies will also look different.

It’s a little too easy or it’s just misleading to say let’s end it in “the world,” because we’re really going to have to think about, “What does slavery look like in India?” And maybe when we look in South India it’ll be different from North India.  And then its going to look really different again in Sudan, and that’s going to look very different from slavery that’s happening in Atlanta, and in New Jersey.  So we’re going to have to pick a specific place in which to become culturally fluent, to try to understand the causes of injustice and what creative intervention might lead to change.  That’s why IJM’s model is so good: it involves mobilizing people who are culturally adept, in the different countries where [IJM] works, because the legal systems are so different.